Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 7:45:19 GMT -6
The Angels are paying Trout $35 million, but their total payroll is about $183 million. Trout receives about 20% of that. Our payrolls will top out at $100 million. Thus, $20 million for Trout. In addition, we will be paying 50 players, not 40. So $15 million for Trout.
The Brewers, with a $98 million total payroll, (over?)pay Cain $17 million. Next in line is Yelich, who is paid $14 million.
I would like to see each draftee receive a little less than the guy drafted ahead of him. I realize this could be a pain in the neck for our esteemed and underpaid administrator. However, I could easily construct a spread sheet that would make such a thing practical.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 7:58:07 GMT -6
I guess the issue in our discussion is you are looking at individual team payrolls while I am looking at the average MLB payroll. Respectfully, if your assumption is used, it seems you are undervaluing the elite players.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 8:23:37 GMT -6
We all know there are guys making the money they definitely don't deserve to make. See Stanton but we control who we pick in the slots. I do like the above post and those money slots
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 10:07:57 GMT -6
The more we discuss options, the more it looks like the existing draft structure is the best option given the negatives of the other options. Another question, I assume a team could, in theory, make no picks until the 16th round and fill their roster with 50 picks ?? With the proposed draft structure, a GM would not be able to do that. If they skipped their pick (intentional or not), the make-up selection they would post would be in the forum thread for that round and the player's salary would be determined by that draft slot still. Although the salaried contracts were proposed to end at the 16th Round, the intention would be to continue drafting--whether we do all 50 rounds or stop at 40 or another number. The players selected in those rounds where the contract is either [0/.5/A1] or [ML] depends on their MLB experience through the end of 2020. Again, that's just the proposal, but I wanted to explain that intention as I think we may need to have a vote to determine the exact process for roster construction.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 10:17:06 GMT -6
Just to try to make everything easier to follow and track the discussion, I moved the posts from the Rulebook to this thread. I like these ideas, and I ultimately think we're probably going to have to cull the top 2-3 options for the league to vote on so we decide collectively. With those who have expressed interest, we should have 3 vacancies with the potential to fill them as soon as this weekend.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 10:18:55 GMT -6
Well, it's good we already have a great open dialog with this and other discussions. I've always been one for not voicing my opinions on things. I'm also very active and love to make trades with one or more teams at a time. This is what make any league fun. My opinion is, one trade sometimes leads to another
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 11:03:08 GMT -6
Well, it's good we already have a great open dialog with this and other discussions. I've always been one for not voicing my opinions on things. I'm also very active and love to make trades with one or more teams at a time. This is what make any league fun. My opinion is, one trade sometimes leads to another That's my intention. More brains together are better than one. I want this league to be collectively built and for everyone to feel invested. GMs don't have to participate in a discussion if they don't want to, but I think it's always better when there's good activity.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 11:07:28 GMT -6
I'm not a vocal person but ready though all the response it looks like we'll be fine.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 11:12:21 GMT -6
According to Spotrac, the average MLB payroll, rounded off, is about 130 million. Mike Trout's AAV is about 35 million or about 27% of the average MLB payroll. The point is there are some elite players who MLB owners feel are that valuable. If I understand the rulebook, if you do not want to spend that much on a player, you pass on the round and wait until the next round. If you do want to take a superstar, you pay the price. Based on the prior post and the Trout contract analysis, I suggest the following revision to the draft structure; Round 1 ( 1-15 ) 25M 1 ( 16-30) 20M 2 (1-15) 15 M 2 (16-30) 12M 3 (1-30) 10M 4 (1-30) 7.5M 5 (1-30) 5M 6 (1-30) 3M 7-8 (1-30) 2/A2/A3 9-15 1/A1/A2/A3 16-25 .5/1/A1/A2/A3 25+ 0/.5/A1/A2/A3 or Minors My intention wasn't to have GMs skip their pick to wait until the next round, but that's an interesting wrinkle.
Based on your proposed distribution, I've attached an updated the salaries document--titling this new one B1GsalariesB just to try to define the different options. The one change I made was for picks 16-30 to be $22 million so that the snake order draft would ensure teams spend the same amount combined on their first two players. The total would be $37 million, whether it's $25M+$12M or $22M+$15M. Also, to clarify, the [0/.5/A1] contract would end at the [A1] stage--I just put it as A1 instead of A to indicate that $3 million is the maximum for that stage.
With rounds 16-25, I think it would be important to give teams the opportunity to release players on the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract before that $1 million salary for the next season becomes official. This structure would also allow more of an opportunity to incorporate Seattle's idea of a more sliding scale where the higher players selected earn slightly more. Thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 11:16:52 GMT -6
What does 0/.5/A1/A2/A3 mean? I'll assume the back end is arbitration. Also, is the anyway to see newer threads first?
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 11:17:47 GMT -6
I think we should take the 10 or 15 elite guys and bid on them and then snake draft the remaining at a more reasonable price so we aren't paying guys like Trea Turner $30 million. And if you pay something like $33 million for Trout, you just lose a pick in the round with the $3 million players to make the overall money work in the salary cap. Would you or anyone else have a proposal for a free agency option? I'm trying to wrap my head around a potential structure, but I think taking the top 15 or more players off the board makes it more difficult to create a draft structure for the remaining players. If we would have a full free agency rather than a limited free agency, then we're also talking about probably 450+ players (to give teams a little more than half of their active roster).
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 11:25:07 GMT -6
What does 0/.5/A1/A2/A3 mean? I'll assume the back end is arbitration. Also, is the anyway to see newer threads first? Correct, the A indicates a stage of arbitration. The [0/.5/A1] and [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] are different contract statuses. Someone would only enter the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract status if you had them signed on your team before they reached the minimum MLB rookie eligibility requirements. If you sign a player during the season who has already exceeded those minimums, then they'll be on the [0/.5/A1] contract with more limited future control. The forum isn't perfect, but I think the threads with the most recent activity should display first for you. Included below are the descriptions I put in the Rulebook to try to differentiate the pay scales... C. Pay ScalesAt the end of every season, players who reach the minimum MLB rookie requirements of 130 at-bats and 50 innings pitched will change pay scales and move to a [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract. The [A1/A2/A3] contract years indicate stages of arbitration. Teams will have until a designated deadline to release these players before those contracts become official. During the season, a team who signs a player who has already exceeded those minimum experience requirements (as of that exact time of the signing) will be on a [0/.5/A1] contract. D. Arbitration ProcessAt the end of every season, all teams will be encouraged to propose salary figures for every player who is arbitration-eligible. The highest and lowest figures for each player will be thrown out and then the remaining figures will be averaged to determine the player’s arbitration salary. No player can earn less than their previous year's salary. Maximum salaries are determined by the arbitration stage. [A1] Maximum: $3 million [A2] Maximum: $5 million [A3] Maximum: $10 million
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 11:44:42 GMT -6
"Based on your proposed distribution, I've attached an updated the salaries document--titling this new one B1GsalariesB just to try to define the different options. The one change I made was for picks 16-30 to be $22 million so that the snake order draft would ensure teams spend the same amount combined on their first two players. The total would be $37 million, whether it's $25M+$12M or $22M+$15M. Also, to clarify, the [0/.5/A1] contract would end at the [A1] stage--I just put it as A1 instead of A to indicate that $3 million is the maximum for that stage.
With rounds 16-25, I think it would be important to give teams the opportunity to release players on the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract before that $1 million salary for the next season becomes official. This structure would also allow more of an opportunity to incorporate Seattle's idea of a more sliding scale where the higher players selected earn slightly more. Thoughts?
B1GsalariesB.xls (175 KB)"
Thanks.. I think this is the best option...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 12:28:51 GMT -6
another idea would be to allow a team to skip a round and get an additional pick in the subsequent round.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2021 12:31:52 GMT -6
Or trading that slot. If I get, let's say, 5th overall, and don't want that "salary slot", could I trade for a lower value slot, say second or third round?
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 24, 2021 21:52:20 GMT -6
We can certainly consider adding those wrinkles (skipping a round or trading picks), but it might help to simplify the options first. If we can settle on 2-3 options and have a league vote, then we could get started as soon as next week. If people like the draft slot salary adjustments offered by San Francisco more than the initial proposal, we could put some type of free agency option against that for the league to decide.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 25, 2021 10:17:12 GMT -6
If we don't have a concrete proposal for some type of free agency, I can also post a league vote later with San Francisco's adjusted salaries for the draft slots against a general limited free agency option to see what the overall league favors. I realize some people may not want to be vocal and are flexible regardless, but I also want to give everyone time and room to discuss a plan before we move forward. To pull it back around and try to make it easier to follow, this was San Francisco's proposed adjustments to the slots... Round1 (1-15) 25M 1 (16-30) 22M 2 (1-15) 15 M 2 (16-30) 12M 3 (1-30) 10M 4 (1-30) 7.5M 5 (1-30) 5M 6 (1-30) 3M 7-8 (1-30) 2/A2/A3 9-15 1/A1/A2/A3 16-26 .5/1/A1/A2/A3 27+ 0/.5/A1 or Minors B1GsalariesB.xls (175 KB)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2021 11:39:29 GMT -6
So let's say I draft Mike Trout in the 50th Round. If I understand correctly, his salary will be 0.1 Million, or $100,000. Those slots are catagorized as 0/.5/A1 or ML. My understanding is that in his second year on my team, he would continue to be paid $100,000. In the third year, he would receive a raise of 50% to $150,000. After that he would be eligible for Level 1 arbitration. Thus, a maximum of $3,000,000. Please clarify where I am wrong.
Regarding the annual draft, the draftable players would be newly carded players who were't taken in a Minor League Draft and free agents who were not signed during the free agent signing period.
After we draft minor leaguers, how much are they paid?
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 25, 2021 13:25:11 GMT -6
So let's say I draft Mike Trout in the 50th Round. If I understand correctly, his salary will be 0.1 Million, or $100,000. Those slots are catagorized as 0/.5/A1 or ML. My understanding is that in his second year on my team, he would continue to be paid $100,000. In the third year, he would receive a raise of 50% to $150,000. After that he would be eligible for Level 1 arbitration. Thus, a maximum of $3,000,000. Please clarify where I am wrong. Regarding the annual draft, the draftable players would be newly carded players who were't taken in a Minor League Draft and free agents who were not signed during the free agent signing period. After we draft minor leaguers, how much are they paid? For the draft, any player selected in the 27th Round or after would not cost anything this 2021 season. If they have 130 or more ABs or 50 or more IP in MLB (through the end of the 2020 season), then they would be on the [0/.5/A1] contract and would cost $500K in 2022 and have one season of arbitration-eligibility in 2023 where they would earn somewhere on the spectrum between $500K and $3 million--the maximum for the A1 arbitration stage. If they haven't met those MLB rookie requirements, then they would be on the [ML] contract and would only move to the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract in the offseason once they have met those MLB rookie requirements for ABs or IP. So say someone who doesn't have the MLB experience yet, but they exceed those requirements in the 2021 season. In that scenario, the player would earn $500K in 2022, $1 million in 2023, and then have 3 years of arbitration control--A1 ($3 million maximum) in 2024, A2 ($5 million maximum) in 2025, and A3 ($10 million maximum) in 2026. Every offseason, there would be the Arbitration Process --> Free Agency --> Amateur Draft --> DMB Player Draft. The Amateur Draft would be the players who were selected and signed by a MLB team in that year's MLB Amateur Draft. International players like those who get the big bonuses in July would also be eligible if they signed with a MLB team before we start our draft. These players don't have any MLB experience so you wouldn't pay them anything yet. They would continue to be on the [ML] contract until they hit those MLB rookie requirements. The DMB Player Draft would probably be 2 rounds of players who weren't signed or part of the Free Agency class, but they have a projection in the simulation. More than likely, these players would be #5 starters, relievers, bench depth, or young guys with a projection that someone wants to add before the season starts and the signing forum opens. It would be a way to ensure the top of those remaining are equitably distributed--or used as trade assets. Those 2 drafts would have the same order, set by the natural worst-to-best winning percentage from the previous simulation season.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 25, 2021 13:33:16 GMT -6
I just realized that I adjusted San Francisco's proposal to use the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract through the 26th Round because ending it at the 25th would have given the teams at the top of the snake order more of those players.
|
|
|
Post by Oakland Athletics on Apr 26, 2021 23:18:05 GMT -6
One possible wrinkle I would like to bring up is how the ML process is being done. Waiting till the 27th to draft someone like CJ Abrams or being penalized with his clock being started seems a bit harsh and seems to restrict the strategy of drafting/roster construction.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2021 6:18:43 GMT -6
I disagree. A player should be drafted based on his market value, not some rule meant to save MLB teams cash... The slot draft system is a practical restriction given we have 30 owners, we do not need further restrictions to create artificial undervaluation.
|
|
|
Post by Oakland Athletics on Apr 27, 2021 9:48:17 GMT -6
The entire draft is based on some artificial numbering. So what are you talking about?
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 27, 2021 10:31:13 GMT -6
Would it be a compromise for the [.5/1/A1/A2/A3] contract to be the slot value for rounds 16-20? If so, the [0/.5/A1] or [ML] contract would be the slot value for the 21st Round and beyond--depending on their MLB experience. Or am I misunderstanding what you meant by how the [ML] process is being done? If you look at the major league level players who would be available after the 20th Round, the valuable options really start to dwindle at around 600 players. I think those would mostly be relievers and bench depth. I can understand offering more flexibility to draft those younger players/prospects (who don't have the MLB experience) a little earlier without forcing teams to start their financial clock immediately.
|
|
|
Post by Oakland Athletics on Apr 27, 2021 11:58:48 GMT -6
That would be what I am saying. The idea of drafting my backup catcher over a more valuable prospect in Low A because that prospect is 3-4 years out and we are starting their clock seems a bit funny to me.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 27, 2021 12:14:33 GMT -6
That makes sense to me. Does anyone have any other suggestions to the salaries for other draft slots? If the draft remains the preferred option over limited free agency to start the league, we can even vote on different draft proposals if we don't seem to be on the same page.
|
|
|
Post by Miami Marlins on Apr 27, 2021 21:50:51 GMT -6
The only thing I can think of is maybe a separate draft for prospects. Maybe just 3-5 rounds. That way we aren't worried about deciding on a #4 starter or Kelenic. And then still build out the remainder of the farm system later in the regular draft.
|
|
|
Post by Philadelphia Phillies on Apr 27, 2021 22:02:32 GMT -6
I’m with Miami’s line of thought.
|
|
|
Post by New York Mets on Apr 27, 2021 22:05:43 GMT -6
How do you determine if someone is a prospect? Teams would have the option of taking Kelenic even earlier in the draft on a paid contract if they want to make sure they have him. I think that allows people to be creative and have the flexibility to choose what they want to do. In those later rounds, you could bolster your pitching staff, build position depth in case of injuries, or select younger guys who might make more of an impact in the future.
|
|
|
Post by Miami Marlins on Apr 27, 2021 22:21:48 GMT -6
How do you determine if someone is a prospect? Teams would have the option of taking Kelenic even earlier in the draft on a paid contract if they want to make sure they have him. I think that allows people to be creative and have the flexibility to choose what they want to do. In those later rounds, you could bolster your pitching staff, build position depth in case of injuries, or select younger guys who might make more of an impact in the future. Anyone that was rookie eligible going into this year. I agree with wanting creativity which is why I said 3-5 rounds instead so there are prospects left. Or say everyone gets a certain amount of ML in the regular draft that can be drafted at any point but stay on the ML status. So you can draft Franco 5th overall but he's free this year and you miss out on a 30M player.
|
|